What bow has equal range to spell range? - Guild Wars Forums

Squeegeez · Jun 03, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

*short version*
* spell range = ?type of bow? *

I'm planning on using Mark of Rodgort, then Barrage, and i was wondering which bow would be best suited for this job? I hear lots of Barrage's use flatbows, but i think that has a lot farther range than the Mark of Rodgort spell. I'd rather not have to sacrifice accuracy or DPS if i'm going to be as close as in casting spell range.

I found some numbers on the wiki relating to bow ranges and other stats, but there were no pictures and i haven't used bows in the game at all, so i'm a bit lost to how far exactly the ranges actually mean.

I tried using the search function, didn't bring up anything. Thanks in advance =)

OrangHebat · Jun 03, 2007, 02:14 PM // 14:14

It'll be easier if you just use a Mark of Rodgort followed by either Fireball, Searing Flames or any other AoE Fire Spell instead of using barrage. In addition of free-ing your elite slot for a better skill, it also make you look less stupid >_>

But if you really want an answer, I guess either a Recurve or Short Bow will do

the_jos · Jun 03, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

You want to use Recurve or Short bow for this situation.
Recurve has a slightly larger range than short bow, but is somewhat slower firing. I think this bow has about the same range as spells.
Short bow has less range than spell range, but has the best fire rate.

Darth Kukulkan · Jun 03, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

In addition of free-ing your elite slot for a better skill, it also make you look less stupid

First Searing Flames IS an elite,
And using it may make you look like a perfect idiot too...

MagmaRed · Jun 03, 2007, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Longbow and Flatbow have LONGER range than spell casting. Spell casting is the exact same range as the aggro circle on the radar. Recurve and Hornbows have the same range as the aggro circle, which is the same as spell casting range. Shortbow and Half Moon have shorter range than spell casting and aggro circle.

Flatbow and Shortbow/Half Moon have the fastest refire speed. You can shoor arrows faster with them. Longbow and Recurve are next fastest. Hornbow is the slowest.

E/R with a bow is not your best option. Staff or Wand/Focus will give you energy, casting bonuses (half cast, recharge), and other options like health, +1 Attribute, etc. Bow can only give you 5 energy max or a half casting speed/recharge bonus. However, the casting speed/recharge bonus is for ALL spells, and maxes at 10% for a bow. Caster weapons can be for a single attribute (Fire) and max at 20%.

I understand you want to make use of Mark Of Rogorts and Barrage to set multiple foes on fire. Fireball can do the same thing, but has a longer recharge than Barrage. Lava Arrows can help as well. Generally, you'd be better suited to stick to elites from your primary class. Fire Magic offers a few skills to do AoE damage for MoR to cause burning, and are already in an attribute you are using. Plus, all of the skills from Fire Magic would do more damage than Barrage would, while still causing the burning.

Squeegeez · Jun 03, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

1) I only have Prophecies, so i believe searing flames is out
2) Barrage will do more damage, because it's per shot, where as with fire storm they usually move out of the AoE
3) I'm going to be using Conjure Flame with a fiery bow so barrage ignites everyone with Mark of Rodgort
4) DPS will be higher, and more instant, because most of my fire spells take 2+ seconds to cast, while Barrage is per attack
5) Barrage has a recharge time of 1 second, most of my usual fire spells take 30+ seconds of recharge

I'll check out the prices / collectors / unique items / stats for just the Shortbow and Recurve bow now, and decide then. Thanks guys =)

Water Angel · Jun 03, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

ya.and you will prolly be kicked of most of groups as well and called noob.including by me if had you join.your a ele not a ranger.if people look for eles for teams it's not for have them go around with a bow and barrage.

i understand your build, and see it point, many people use it,including me sometime, but as R/E, if u wan play a barrage/mark of rodgort + conjure X build, make a ranger/ele. so it's logical and u dun look like a idiot who jus started game.liek this warriors with meteor shower and staff.rofl

but a ele with a bow it's bs and you make people waste time invit you as ele in team, + anyway they gonna kick you later for a true ele,what they was lookin for.

so your build is ok,but for god sake use a r/e for that not a ele with a bow...

Squeegeez · Jun 03, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Kind of too late, as i'm still doing PvE in the really later stages of the game, so i'm just experimenting around with different secondary professions and combos. If i could change my primary profession on the fly, yeah i'd try R/E for this, but you can't. Also, the damage increase is higher with more attribute points in fire magic and conjure flame, compared to marksmanship and barrage damage. So it's better to have the rune with fire than marksmanship, unless the inherent damage modifer + criticals is better with bows and marksmanship, compared to the fire attibute skills.

Also, i'm usually really up-front about what i do, and ping my skills right away. People looking for a "B/P"er or "nuker" would probably take me any day.

Curse You · Jun 03, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegeez

Kind of too late, as i'm still doing PvE in the really later stages of the game, so i'm just experimenting around with different secondary professions and combos. If i could change my primary profession on the fly, yeah i'd try R/E for this, but you can't. Also, the damage increase is higher with more attribute points in fire magic and conjure flame, compared to marksmanship and barrage damage. So it's better to have the rune with fire than marksmanship, unless the inherent damage modifer + criticals is better with bows and marksmanship, compared to the fire attibute skills.

Also, i'm usually really up-front about what i do, and ping my skills right away. People looking for a "B/P"er or "nuker" would probably take me any day.

Damage output is even better if you use Fire Magic Spells. If you think the recharge is too long, then maybe you haven't noticed [wiki]Immolate[/wiki], [wiki]Flare[/wiki], [wiki]Fireball[/wiki] or [wiki]Phoenix[/wiki]. Just those 4 spells can do a nice amount of hurting.

Also, if you dislike the way Fire Magic works, why not use one the other 3 elements? From the sound of things, you may like something like Air Magic (fast casting, quick recharge, high damage).

Also, if you're at the Ring of Fire, you shouldn't be using Fire Magic in the first place.

Squeegeez · Jun 03, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Well, i love fire magic, and i've used it through the vast majority of the game, and i never did like air/earth/water magic. I'm basically just experimenting with different combos and secondary professions so i can get a better feel for how people play them, what types of strategies they use, what kind of mindset they have. I've tried a secondary monk, and it was a lot different looking at all the individual or group health bars, conditions, and hexes. It was even fun and really a change of pace to constantly keep 10 maintained enchantments throughout an entire mission non-stop.

While when i was focussing on elementalist skills i would target different pods of enemies, the larget group of enemies, the least likely to move, the enemy's overall health, etc. I've been focussed a lot lately on recharge times, having a lot of AoE damage over time spells, long recharges, high energy cost, yet efficient energy management, and being able to almost constantly cast, even with the large recharge times.

But lately i've noticed during short encounters my damage output is very small, while over long encounters my damage far exceeds anyone else in the party. For short encounters i'd get about 2 firestorm hits and the guy would be dead already, and i thought to myself how could i still get the same damage results but start the damage quicker? I also wanted to see what all the hype was about with the "B/Ps".

notskorn · Jun 03, 2007, 04:43 PM // 16:43

If you want to see what the hype is about with Barrage/Pets then you need to play a RANGER

Squeegeez · Jun 03, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

I am playing ranger, as secondary, i can still get barrage and a pet, with their attribute points, so what's the difference?

Curse You · Jun 03, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

If you really want to find out what it's like playing as another profession, you have to make one that is a primary of the profession.

The reason is that if you don't have a character with the primary, you never find out how their primary attribute works. You can play as a E/Mo and heal, but you'll never find out how Divine Favor works. Otherwise, you're only getting half the experience.

Smile Like Umean It · Jun 03, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegeez

I am playing ranger, as secondary, i can still get barrage and a pet, with their attribute points, so what's the difference?

But you can't get the same attribute points as a ranger.
Most people try to max our Marks to get as much damage as possible from Barrage. You can only put in 12 max.

Honestly, the best thing to do is just make a ranger if you want to do it so badly.

Water Angel · Jun 03, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegeez

I've tried a secondary monk, and it was a lot different looking at all the individual or group health bars, conditions, and hexes. It was even fun and really a change of pace to constantly keep 10 maintained enchantments throughout an entire mission non-stop.

I've been focussed a lot lately on recharge times, having a lot of AoE damage over time spells, long recharges, high energy cost, yet efficient energy management, and being able to almost constantly cast, even with the large recharge times.

But lately i've noticed during short encounters my damage output is very small, while over long encounters my damage far exceeds anyone else in the party. For short encounters i'd get about 2 firestorm hits and the guy would be dead already, and i thought to myself how could i still get the same damage results but start the damage quicker? I also wanted to see what all the hype was about with the "B/Ps".

/resign...ok lets do it point by point :

how can u even have idea of what's monking by playing e/mo? ele = 100 energy + no divin favor monk enrgy pool is around 40-50.
you have no idea of what monking is no matter how much monk secodnary u play.cus first profession monk have pool of energy u do cut by half.and it change alot when u have to think when spam or not spam some spells and what use and not to use for no be short in mana or heal effectively.only use of a e/mo as monk is in pvp....or a REALLY desperate pug pve group..

same for b/p. b/p = interupt +17 dmg and pet.and cost of barrage around 2energy.
with e/r as b/p : once again energy is much larger so so no same menagement, the energy cost of barrage/ranger skills vary as no reduced by expertise,and defense abilites arent same.cant compare.

why are you even using firestorm?crap dmg+ monster run off even in normal mode ( no mentioning hard).ele= fast dmg dealer.so what's the use of u if u caste3-4 aoe spells and ur useless for next 15-50 sec cause all is recharging?pointless.
and if in short encounters ur dmg output is weak u seriously should review your skills and atributes, [skill]Fireball[/skill][skill]phoenix[/skill][skill]immolate[/skill].with that 3 as said above,and especially in short encounter you should have the max output,cus of spells dmg vs others sources and recharge time.
get is as a rule : ele dmg always supperior others dmg no matter if short or fast encounters.cept if foes are element resistant or magic resistant.if not, you build is bad.
and if you wan be effective learn to adapt : liek golems are more fragil to fire so are other monsters to other sources,not always fire.

Does-it-Matter · Jun 03, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegeez

I am playing ranger, as secondary, i can still get barrage and a pet, with their attribute points, so what's the difference?

The problem is you don't fit into other players pre-conceived notions of how to play the game. Simply put, you don't play the game how they would, therefore you are automatically inferior.

I'll give you a quick stroll through the History of Guild Wars so you can see.

2 Years Ago. If you weren't of the "Holy Trinity" you weren't desired for a group, that being Warrior, Elementalist, Monk. Rangers were quick-kicks if something more desirable came along, Necros weren't realized as potential yet, and what's a Mesmer?

This was simply because pre-conceived notions from other RPG styled games. All you need is a tank to take the aggro, a nuker and a healer. Everything else "Clearly" can't do that job well enough.

Elementalist spells were VERY noticable, Warriors hits were obvious and needed for aggro. And everyone knows when a Monk is healing. No one saw the Necro draining/killing everything in aggro because their affects are subtle. There is no big "shock and awe." Mesmers at the time were only good at shutting down a target or two, and since monsters have more energy than they ever need... Why have a Ranger who a Warrior can do the same thing AND tank?

A few Updates from ANet and prominent figures in the community SHOWING how powerful Necro/Mesmers/Rangers can be (good job guys, once again!) finally started to see most of these classes included (Poor, poor mesmer...)

Necros tend to have been subjected to the role of either MM or SS, or BiP. They can do so much more, but the "majority" of players only need "niche professions." I.E. You perform a pre-conceived role for the group via your profession.

Rangers were seeing action now, as Barragers, and to some degree trappers. Eventually B/P (Barrager Pet) groups gained popularity and, at some times, a dominant lead.

---

This brings us to Factions. We get the Assassin and the Ritualist. Well, many players decided Assassins should be tanks (because they're melee right!?) But with their low armor and occasional lag in combos, they died quickly. Necros LOVED Assassins, but that's about it.

The Ritualist remained an undiscovered gem and rarely accepted until, again, players showed how powerful a Spirit Spammer is, how well they can heal a group and how well they can buff one too.

---

The Dervish, on the other hand, gained quick popularity in Nightfall as being able to out-tank a Warrior, and the fact that they hit AoE made it that much better. Many runs are now made with Dervishes in lieu of warriors as well.

The Paragon started out strong, but due to many reasons (please, let's not get into THAT issue here) it has seen better days. Though ClawofCrimson has done a lot to see the Paragon re-introduced as a viable class.

---

Now, I have very little problems with PUGs. I never require to see someone's build, and I never "order" someone to change their build or bring a certain skill unless they WANT to. I didn't pay for their account, so I keep my mouth shut. I also refuse to be confined to certain roles for my professions. If we don't have the "optimal" build, so what? It's a game, not life or death. I spend "x amount of hours" playing the game not "x amount of wins/completions." If I enjoy myself, I enjoy myself.

Hell, I was in a PUG last night that included a Paragon (me) and a Hero. No one had Lightbringer above Level 3, and only two people brought any Lightbringer skills. We did the Gates of Madness, and despite my roommate chanting that we were going to die, managed to get Masters. Was it hard? Yes, many died at least 4-5 times, but we made it.

Many people in Guild Wars have been burnt by bad PUGs, and as such, demand perfection before they even start so their time isn't "wasted." It's a bad outlook to even start with imo, but this is how some people are. I can find more clear-headed groups.

---

Now as to YOUR build. Personally, I would have no problem taking you into a group. Yes, you're not the "Searing Flames, Mark of Rodgut, Glowing Gaze, Meteor Shower" nuker that seems to be everywhere, but who cares?

Assuming 16 Fire, 12 Marksmanship, 4 Energy Storage:
You're looking at doing anywhere from 56-74 elemental damage (more to those weak against fire) to up to SIX foes with a 17% at criticalling on each arrow every second (or there abouts), PLUS constant burning which is -14 Health a second for FIVE energy.

To me, that's a good build.

Now, looking at the Ranger/Ele version --- (12 Fire, 16 Marksmanship, 4 Expertise)

You're looking at doing anywhere from 58-78 elemental damage (more to those weak against fire) to up to SIX foes with a 22.3% at criticialling on each arrow every second (or there abouts), PLUS constant burning which is -14 Health a second for FOUR energy.

---

Now let's compare the bare-bones.

E/R vs R/E

Going with a ranger primary only gives you 2-4 More damage per hit with a 5.3% greater chance at Critical Hits for one energy less, but you have a smaller pool of energy by 12.

So to the OP, go ahead and make your E/R Fire Barrager, you'll be ALMOST as good as an R/E Fire Barrager and have fun doing it.

MagmaRed · Jun 03, 2007, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Runes, Headgear, and Primary Attribute are why you pick a class to play. Consider these numbers in regards to your E/R options.

All damages are based on max attribute points (if possible, using Superior Rune and Headgear).

E/R
Barrage = +13 damage
Mark of Rodgort = lasts 37 seconds, burning for 4 seconds
Conjure Flame = +23 damage

So using Mark of Rodgort, Conjure Flame, and Barrage, you can get +36 damage with each hit, and cause burning for 4 seconds. This is with 12 Marksmanship, 16 Fire Magic, which only leaves 3(plus rune) for Energy Storage. You won't have much energy if you max out Marksmanship for the damage, so you won't be able to spam Barrage very long.

Now, consider the R/E with same skills, but 16 Marksmanship, 12 Fire Magic, and 3(plus Rune) Expertise. With low Expertise, you have the same problem with energy, so can't spam Barrage as much, but see the damage change.

Barrage = +17 damage
Mark of Rodgort = lasts 30 seconds, burning for 3 seconds
Conjure Flame = +19 damage

So the damage bonus is still +36, and you lose 1 second of burning. Not much change in damage potential.

HOWEVER, consider what an E/R could do, with better skill set and attribute allocation.

E/R
16 Fire Magic
13 Energy Storage
3 Wilderness Survival

Fireball = 119 damage to target and anything adjacent to target, every 7 seconds
Lava Arrows = 68 damage to up to 3 foes near your target, every 2 seconds
Mark of Rodgort = lasts 37 seconds, burning for 4 seconds
Immolate = 63 damage, and burning for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds
Liquid Flame = 119 damage to target, and if attacking/casting nearby foes too, every 15 seconds
Serpents Quickness = 18 seconds of 33% reduced recharge time for skills

All those spells do considerably more damage, still trigger MoR, and recharge in quick enough time to be ready with another when you cycle through them. Serpents Quickness can allow you to cast more often. Although several of the skills have 2 second cast times, the damage upgrade makes it worthwhile. If you hit your target with 2 Barrages you do +72 damage, and cause burning for 8 seconds. If you use Fireball, which casts in 2 seconds, the time for 2 Barrages (roughly) you do 119 damage and cause burning for 4 seconds. The damage from the bow is not going to make up for the 45 points different in damage from Fireball v Barrage.

Expertise and Energy Storage are very good primary attributes. Think about how they help you, and use them effectively. E/R does not have Marksmanship runes or headgear to use, which means they can't match the Ranger for damage on a bow skill. Without Expertise, they can't spam bow skills without HIGH energy, which drains your attributes from Marksmanship or Fire Magic.

Your build will be average, while a R/E using Conjure and MoR can be highly effective, and a E/R using no bow skills can be HIGHLY damaging.

Squeegeez · Jun 03, 2007, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Hey thanks for everyone's input, i appreciate it. No i didn't fully experience the monk class, but i did consider the effects of divine favor and having less energy. The fact is i only want a taste of how other professions do what they do, without completely starting a new character. After considering what a true monk does and what i would have to do had i less energy pool and divine favor, i'm glad i chose elementalist. It's not my style, but it was an eye-opener and a change of pace nonetheless.

I think Lava Arrows is part of factions or nightfall..? (which i said i don't have)

I tried serpent's quickness for a bit, but in the end i think it ended up having too large of a recharge time itself, and i could better use that skill slot for another better skill.

I chose not to do immolate because i usually have all the enemies i'm targetting on Mark of Rodgort, so the burning aspect of immolate is null, which then means only damage is considered which is pretty low compared to my other spells. On top of that it has no AoE effect, and combined with MoR flare would be doing just as much damage.

I chose not to have pheonix because i'm rarely adjacent to my foes, as i always try to stay at a distance. So with it's relatively high energy cost, and moderate casting time, with only the lesser of the 2 damage outputs it has being considered, it was decided i wouldn't use it.

In game i've just aquired a collector's bow that would fit what i want, let me know what you think of putting these mods on it to fit my situation:
Fiery (to trigger Mark of Rodgort)
Ascalaon Recurve Bow (Recurve to match the spell casting distance of MoR)
Dmg+15%(while hp above 50%)
Enchantments last 20% longer (I will be constantly maintaining Aura of Restoration, Conjure Flame, and Fire Attunement)

Does-it-Matter · Jun 03, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

A couple things Magma,

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Fireball = 119 damage to target and anything adjacent to target, every 7 seconds

Every 9 seconds, because you have to spend 2 (interruptible) seconds casting. So we're looking at a DPS of roughly 13.2 to adjacent foes. And an energy cost per second (EPS) of 1.11

Quote:

Lava Arrows = 68 damage to up to 3 foes near your target, every 2 seconds

Every three seconds, interruptible, half normal range. DPS = 68, EPS = 1.67

Quote:

Immolate = 63 damage, and burning for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds

4 Seconds, interruptible, Burning for 3 out of the 4 seconds. DPS = 15.75, EPS = 2.5

Quote:

Liquid Flame = 119 damage to target, and if attacking/casting nearby foes too, every 15 seconds

Every sixteen seconds, interruptible, conditional. DPS = 7.44, EPS = .625

Quote:

Serpents Quickness = 18 seconds of 33% reduced recharge time for skills

18 seconds of use, 27 seconds inactive. I'll re-examine the skills under the reduced recharge using the most time-efficient to skill ratio.

Fireball: 5 seconds total (2 seconds interruptible). DPS = 23.8 Adjacent, EPS = 2
Lava Arrows: 3 seconds total (1 second interruptible.) DPS = 68, EPS =1.67
Immolate: 3 seconds total (1 second interruptible.) DPS = 21, EPS 3.33
Liquid Flame: 11 seconds total (1 second interruptible.) DPS = 10.82 (conditional nearby), EPS = .91

So, let's say we cast Serpant's Quickness (5 Energy), we now have 18 seconds to cast spells under a reduced recharge. We cast all of the above once. (35 Energy, 505 Fire Damage. It affected mostly a single target, with one affecting adjacent and another affecting nearby if the condition is met) Now that used 5 seconds, we have 13 left.

The first to recharge with the higher DPS is Lava Arrows. So we spend another 5 Energy and 1 second to get 204 Damage on a single target. 12 seconds left.

Immolate is next up, 10 more energy for 63 damage. 11 seconds.

Fireball just finished recharging. 119 damage for 10 energy. 9 Seconds left.

We now do Lava Arrows and Immolate. 15 Energy, 267 damage, 7 seconds left. (Liquid Flame still needs 4 more seconds of recharge.)

Fireball again. 119 Damage, 10 Energy, 5 seconds.

Lava Arrows + Immolate. 15 Energy, 267 Damage, 3 seconds.

Liquid Flame. 119 Damage, 10 energy. 2 seconds.

JUST enough (assuming you have the reflexes of a ferret on crystal meth) time to cast Immolate + Lava Arrows again. 15 Energy, 267 Damage, 0 seconds left. Which ever one you cast first (Immolate or Lava Arrows) will have a quickened recharge.

Lava Arrows do more damage, so, 204 Damage, 5 Energy, -1 second.

You now have 26 seconds in which you are back to base recharge times.

Let's look at how much damage we did during those 19 seconds.

2134 Damage to a point target (595 of that is to adjacent) (238 of that is to nearby if conditions are met.) This cost you 135 Energy and 19 seconds.

Overall DPS = 112.32, EPS = 7.11

Let's look at 19 seconds of Barrage with Conjure Flame already cast (as it has roughly 60-72 seconds of duration.) This is as a E/R with 16 in Flame, 12 in Marksmanship and 4 In Energy Storage.

Barrage = 5 Energy, 1 second total. Blockable. DPS = 56-74, EPS = 5

(Note, this requires you to push a single button, not a variety of different ones, thus making spamming slightly easier, but trivial. And also, as I double checked, its six ADDITIONAL adjacent foes.. bringing it up to 7 hits.)

19 Seconds later. 1064 to 1406. Now this is ALWAYS to 7 foes adjacent to each other. 95 Energy.

Overall. DPS = 56-74, EPS = 5 to 7 targets.

The big difference is when you no longer have that 33% constant reduced recharge to your skills.

(Note: I didn't include things like resistance vs. Fire, Dazed, Blind, or recharge/cast mods since that would make my sunday afternoon into too much math and not enough fun. The only external modifiers are possible interrupts and possible blocks.)

Comparing the above builds.

Single Target:
E - Nuke: DPS = 112.32, EPS = 7.11
E - Barrage: DPS = 56-74, EPS = 5

Adjacent Targets:
E - Nuke: DPS = 31.32, EPS = 7.11
E - Barrage: DPS = 56-74, EPS = 5

If you are looking to attack a single target, you definitely would prefer the Elementalist as a nuker. However, if you want to attack multiple targets, you will have much more success with the Elementalist as a ranger.

Quote:

If you hit your target with 2 Barrages you do +72 damage, and cause burning for 8 seconds. If you use Fireball, which casts in 2 seconds, the time for 2 Barrages (roughly) you do 119 damage and cause burning for 4 seconds. The damage from the bow is not going to make up for the 45 points different in damage from Fireball v Barrage.

Just want to point out one thing to this, that in fact the bow (assuming customized and 15% While enchanted or Above 50) will give 40.5 to 72.9 damage and make up for the point difference and (usually) then some.

Quote:

Expertise and Energy Storage are very good primary attributes. Think about how they help you, and use them effectively. E/R does not have Marksmanship runes or headgear to use, which means they can't match the Ranger for damage on a bow skill. Without Expertise, they can't spam bow skills without HIGH energy, which drains your attributes from Marksmanship or Fire Magic.

Where the Elementalist lacks Marksmanship runes, the Ranger lacks Fire runes (for the purpose of R/E vs E/R), and the damage turns out to be the same. Though for your example of a straight fire nuker, you are correct the primary works. Remember though, that sometimes Primaries benefit the secondary better for certain builds (touch Ranger, for instance.)

The E/R Conjure Barrager in my example can look to roughly 56-61 Energy (61 being with a +5 inscription instead of +15% damage, which reduces damage by 2.25-4.05 per arrow.) That's 11-12 Barrages (11 seconds or 57.89% of the "19 second battle" durations)

The E/R Nuker can get about 103 Energy (Assuming all radiants, 3 +2 Energy runes, +5 Staff head and +5 Inscription) That translates to 76.3% of the "19 second battle" duration.

For the Nuker to be stronger than the E/R barrager due to energy limitations against adjacent targets, it needs to run at least 78.80% longer, but it only manages 18.41%

Quote:

Your build will be average, while a R/E using Conjure and MoR can be highly effective, and a E/R using no bow skills can be HIGHLY damaging.

Versus a series of adjacent targets, the E/R Conjure Barrager will beat your nuker and only be slightly less than a R/E Conjure Barrager. That's hardly average.

Does-it-Matter · Jun 03, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

One correction I want to make, as my roommate pointed this out. Adding Fire Attuement (at the expense of either Aura of Restoration or a Rez) will return roughly 52 Energy. The E/R Nuker can actually run through his entire "19 second battle" layout.

This puts the damage difference to only 595 vs. 616-814 in favor of the Barrager during that 19 second battle. (11 seconds for the Barrager not counting energy regen.)

---

Also, I don't want to make it seem that a Fire Nuker will always be beat out by a E/R Conjure Barrager

This build:

[skill]Flare[/skill][skill]Mark of Rodgort[/skill][skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Meteor Shower[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Fire Magic: 12+3+1
Energy Storage: 12+1
(3 Runes of Attunement)

Running this for 11 second (assuming both your enchantments are already up, and you've already cast Mark of Rodgort. Also time "zero" starts as soon as Meteor Shower is finished casting) will yield 1175 fire damage to adjacent foes (at the cost of 55 energy) versus the 616-814 fire damage of the E/R Conjure Barrager (at the cost of 55 energy.)

Jun 03, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57	#1
Squeegeez Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jun 2007 Profession: E/R	What bow has equal range to spell range? short version * spell range = ?type of bow? * I'm planning on using Mark of Rodgort, then Barrage, and i was wondering which bow would be best suited for this job? I hear lots of Barrage's use flatbows, but i think that has a lot farther range than the Mark of Rodgort spell. I'd rather not have to sacrifice accuracy or DPS if i'm going to be as close as in casting spell range. I found some numbers on the wiki relating to bow ranges and other stats, but there were no pictures and i haven't used bows in the game at all, so i'm a bit lost to how far exactly the ranges actually mean. I tried using the search function, didn't bring up anything. Thanks in advance =)

Jun 03, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53	#6
Squeegeez Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jun 2007 Profession: E/R	1) I only have Prophecies, so i believe searing flames is out 2) Barrage will do more damage, because it's per shot, where as with fire storm they usually move out of the AoE 3) I'm going to be using Conjure Flame with a fiery bow so barrage ignites everyone with Mark of Rodgort 4) DPS will be higher, and more instant, because most of my fire spells take 2+ seconds to cast, while Barrage is per attack 5) Barrage has a recharge time of 1 second, most of my usual fire spells take 30+ seconds of recharge I'll check out the prices / collectors / unique items / stats for just the Shortbow and Recurve bow now, and decide then. Thanks guys =) Last edited by Squeegeez; Jun 03, 2007 at 02:59 PM // 14:59..

Jun 03, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38	#20
Does-it-Matter Krytan Explorer Join Date: Dec 2005 Profession: N/	One correction I want to make, as my roommate pointed this out. Adding Fire Attuement (at the expense of either Aura of Restoration or a Rez) will return roughly 52 Energy. The E/R Nuker can actually run through his entire "19 second battle" layout. This puts the damage difference to only 595 vs. 616-814 in favor of the Barrager during that 19 second battle. (11 seconds for the Barrager not counting energy regen.) --- Also, I don't want to make it seem that a Fire Nuker will always be beat out by a E/R Conjure Barrager This build: [skill]Flare[/skill][skill]Mark of Rodgort[/skill][skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Meteor Shower[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill] Fire Magic: 12+3+1 Energy Storage: 12+1 (3 Runes of Attunement) Running this for 11 second (assuming both your enchantments are already up, and you've already cast Mark of Rodgort. Also time "zero" starts as soon as Meteor Shower is finished casting) will yield 1175 fire damage to adjacent foes (at the cost of 55 energy) versus the 616-814 fire damage of the E/R Conjure Barrager (at the cost of 55 energy.) Last edited by Does-it-Matter; Jun 03, 2007 at 10:26 PM // 22:26..

Jun 03, 2007, 02:14 PM // 14:14	#2
OrangHebat Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Sep 2006	It'll be easier if you just use a Mark of Rodgort followed by either Fireball, Searing Flames or any other AoE Fire Spell instead of using barrage. In addition of free-ing your elite slot for a better skill, it also make you look less stupid >_> But if you really want an answer, I guess either a Recurve or Short Bow will do

Jun 03, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32	#3
the_jos Forge Runner Join Date: Jun 2006 Guild: Hard Mode Legion [HML] Profession: N/	You want to use Recurve or Short bow for this situation. Recurve has a slightly larger range than short bow, but is somewhat slower firing. I think this bow has about the same range as spells. Short bow has less range than spell range, but has the best fire rate.

Jun 03, 2007, 02:44 PM // 14:44	#5
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	Longbow and Flatbow have LONGER range than spell casting. Spell casting is the exact same range as the aggro circle on the radar. Recurve and Hornbows have the same range as the aggro circle, which is the same as spell casting range. Shortbow and Half Moon have shorter range than spell casting and aggro circle. Flatbow and Shortbow/Half Moon have the fastest refire speed. You can shoor arrows faster with them. Longbow and Recurve are next fastest. Hornbow is the slowest. E/R with a bow is not your best option. Staff or Wand/Focus will give you energy, casting bonuses (half cast, recharge), and other options like health, +1 Attribute, etc. Bow can only give you 5 energy max or a half casting speed/recharge bonus. However, the casting speed/recharge bonus is for ALL spells, and maxes at 10% for a bow. Caster weapons can be for a single attribute (Fire) and max at 20%. I understand you want to make use of Mark Of Rogorts and Barrage to set multiple foes on fire. Fireball can do the same thing, but has a longer recharge than Barrage. Lava Arrows can help as well. Generally, you'd be better suited to stick to elites from your primary class. Fire Magic offers a few skills to do AoE damage for MoR to cause burning, and are already in an attribute you are using. Plus, all of the skills from Fire Magic would do more damage than Barrage would, while still causing the burning.

Jun 03, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11	#7
Water Angel Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Paris Profession: Me/E	ya.and you will prolly be kicked of most of groups as well and called noob.including by me if had you join.your a ele not a ranger.if people look for eles for teams it's not for have them go around with a bow and barrage. i understand your build, and see it point, many people use it,including me sometime, but as R/E, if u wan play a barrage/mark of rodgort + conjure X build, make a ranger/ele. so it's logical and u dun look like a idiot who jus started game.liek this warriors with meteor shower and staff.rofl but a ele with a bow it's bs and you make people waste time invit you as ele in team, + anyway they gonna kick you later for a true ele,what they was lookin for. so your build is ok,but for god sake use a r/e for that not a ele with a bow...

Jun 03, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54	#8
Squeegeez Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jun 2007 Profession: E/R	Kind of too late, as i'm still doing PvE in the really later stages of the game, so i'm just experimenting around with different secondary professions and combos. If i could change my primary profession on the fly, yeah i'd try R/E for this, but you can't. Also, the damage increase is higher with more attribute points in fire magic and conjure flame, compared to marksmanship and barrage damage. So it's better to have the rune with fire than marksmanship, unless the inherent damage modifer + criticals is better with bows and marksmanship, compared to the fire attibute skills. Also, i'm usually really up-front about what i do, and ping my skills right away. People looking for a "B/P"er or "nuker" would probably take me any day.

Jun 03, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27	#10
Squeegeez Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jun 2007 Profession: E/R	Well, i love fire magic, and i've used it through the vast majority of the game, and i never did like air/earth/water magic. I'm basically just experimenting with different combos and secondary professions so i can get a better feel for how people play them, what types of strategies they use, what kind of mindset they have. I've tried a secondary monk, and it was a lot different looking at all the individual or group health bars, conditions, and hexes. It was even fun and really a change of pace to constantly keep 10 maintained enchantments throughout an entire mission non-stop. While when i was focussing on elementalist skills i would target different pods of enemies, the larget group of enemies, the least likely to move, the enemy's overall health, etc. I've been focussed a lot lately on recharge times, having a lot of AoE damage over time spells, long recharges, high energy cost, yet efficient energy management, and being able to almost constantly cast, even with the large recharge times. But lately i've noticed during short encounters my damage output is very small, while over long encounters my damage far exceeds anyone else in the party. For short encounters i'd get about 2 firestorm hits and the guy would be dead already, and i thought to myself how could i still get the same damage results but start the damage quicker? I also wanted to see what all the hype was about with the "B/Ps".

Jun 03, 2007, 04:43 PM // 16:43	#11
notskorn Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: Clan Roxor Profession: W/E	If you want to see what the hype is about with Barrage/Pets then you need to play a RANGER

Jun 03, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17	#12
Squeegeez Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jun 2007 Profession: E/R	I am playing ranger, as secondary, i can still get barrage and a pet, with their attribute points, so what's the difference?

Jun 03, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02	#13
Curse You Furnace Stoker Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: South Pole Guild: The Magus Order Profession: N/Mo	If you really want to find out what it's like playing as another profession, you have to make one that is a primary of the profession. The reason is that if you don't have a character with the primary, you never find out how their primary attribute works. You can play as a E/Mo and heal, but you'll never find out how Divine Favor works. Otherwise, you're only getting half the experience.

Jun 03, 2007, 07:49 PM // 19:49	#17
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	Runes, Headgear, and Primary Attribute are why you pick a class to play. Consider these numbers in regards to your E/R options. All damages are based on max attribute points (if possible, using Superior Rune and Headgear). E/R Barrage = +13 damage Mark of Rodgort = lasts 37 seconds, burning for 4 seconds Conjure Flame = +23 damage So using Mark of Rodgort, Conjure Flame, and Barrage, you can get +36 damage with each hit, and cause burning for 4 seconds. This is with 12 Marksmanship, 16 Fire Magic, which only leaves 3(plus rune) for Energy Storage. You won't have much energy if you max out Marksmanship for the damage, so you won't be able to spam Barrage very long. Now, consider the R/E with same skills, but 16 Marksmanship, 12 Fire Magic, and 3(plus Rune) Expertise. With low Expertise, you have the same problem with energy, so can't spam Barrage as much, but see the damage change. Barrage = +17 damage Mark of Rodgort = lasts 30 seconds, burning for 3 seconds Conjure Flame = +19 damage So the damage bonus is still +36, and you lose 1 second of burning. Not much change in damage potential. HOWEVER, consider what an E/R could do, with better skill set and attribute allocation. E/R 16 Fire Magic 13 Energy Storage 3 Wilderness Survival Fireball = 119 damage to target and anything adjacent to target, every 7 seconds Lava Arrows = 68 damage to up to 3 foes near your target, every 2 seconds Mark of Rodgort = lasts 37 seconds, burning for 4 seconds Immolate = 63 damage, and burning for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds Liquid Flame = 119 damage to target, and if attacking/casting nearby foes too, every 15 seconds Serpents Quickness = 18 seconds of 33% reduced recharge time for skills All those spells do considerably more damage, still trigger MoR, and recharge in quick enough time to be ready with another when you cycle through them. Serpents Quickness can allow you to cast more often. Although several of the skills have 2 second cast times, the damage upgrade makes it worthwhile. If you hit your target with 2 Barrages you do +72 damage, and cause burning for 8 seconds. If you use Fireball, which casts in 2 seconds, the time for 2 Barrages (roughly) you do 119 damage and cause burning for 4 seconds. The damage from the bow is not going to make up for the 45 points different in damage from Fireball v Barrage. Expertise and Energy Storage are very good primary attributes. Think about how they help you, and use them effectively. E/R does not have Marksmanship runes or headgear to use, which means they can't match the Ranger for damage on a bow skill. Without Expertise, they can't spam bow skills without HIGH energy, which drains your attributes from Marksmanship or Fire Magic. Your build will be average, while a R/E using Conjure and MoR can be highly effective, and a E/R using no bow skills can be HIGHLY damaging.

Jun 03, 2007, 09:00 PM // 21:00	#18
Squeegeez Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jun 2007 Profession: E/R	Hey thanks for everyone's input, i appreciate it. No i didn't fully experience the monk class, but i did consider the effects of divine favor and having less energy. The fact is i only want a taste of how other professions do what they do, without completely starting a new character. After considering what a true monk does and what i would have to do had i less energy pool and divine favor, i'm glad i chose elementalist. It's not my style, but it was an eye-opener and a change of pace nonetheless. I think Lava Arrows is part of factions or nightfall..? (which i said i don't have) I tried serpent's quickness for a bit, but in the end i think it ended up having too large of a recharge time itself, and i could better use that skill slot for another better skill. I chose not to do immolate because i usually have all the enemies i'm targetting on Mark of Rodgort, so the burning aspect of immolate is null, which then means only damage is considered which is pretty low compared to my other spells. On top of that it has no AoE effect, and combined with MoR flare would be doing just as much damage. I chose not to have pheonix because i'm rarely adjacent to my foes, as i always try to stay at a distance. So with it's relatively high energy cost, and moderate casting time, with only the lesser of the 2 damage outputs it has being considered, it was decided i wouldn't use it. In game i've just aquired a collector's bow that would fit what i want, let me know what you think of putting these mods on it to fit my situation: Fiery (to trigger Mark of Rodgort) Ascalaon Recurve Bow (Recurve to match the spell casting distance of MoR) Dmg+15%(while hp above 50%) Enchantments last 20% longer (I will be constantly maintaining Aura of Restoration, Conjure Flame, and Fire Attunement)